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MBP17" 2009 (820-2390-A) Shut Downs randomly

R

RDelectronics

New member
Hi all, first post here! Thanks in advance for all the info shared in this forum and in the Youtube Channel Louis and all. Thanks to discovering this forum I'm thinking about repairing my MBP17" E2009 instead of letting it go.

Let me explain the problem as much as possible to help other people identify similar issues.

MBP SPECS:
  • Macbook Pro 17", Early 2009 unit, A1297. MacBookPro 5,2
  • Core 2 Duo 2.66GHz
  • 8 GB RAM (2x4 GB CSX DDR3 1066MHz)
  • Crucial SSD MX200 512GB
  • SMC version: 1.42f4
  • Logic Board version: 820-2390-A
  • Battery is an Apple official replacement one (Apple A1309, 7.3V, 95Wh) that still retains 71% capacity. No battery defects detected by "Battery Monitor" app. Original battery had to be replaced due to cell expansion disturbing the touchpad.
  • AC charger is an Apple original one, 85W.
  • MOJAVE 10.14 macOS fully working (thanks to dosdude1.com instructions).
  • Apps I'm using to locate the problem: HW Monitor, Macs Fan Control.
NOTES: same problem happened with macOS 10.11 El Capitan, and also with other A1309 compatible batteries (ANSANOR and other brands, I've tried 3 different ones).​
THE PROBLEM:

Short description:

The MBP shuts down randomly, specially when working only with battery, but sometimes (less usual) with the AC charger also shuts down or even without battery (only AC charger).

Details:
  • When it shuts down, I have to press at least twice the Power button to get re-started. First time is a faulty start almost always (front LED turns on of 1-2 seconds and shuts down again).
  • Sometimes it does not even arrive to do a full re-start, shuts down during the start up process. Less frequent when powered by AC charger.
  • When running on battery only it's way way more complicated to turn it on, almost always fails. Measuring Battery voltage during turn on (without AC charger), it's at 8.3V before Power on, and goes down to 7.7V during turn on process, so it does not seem to go so low (nominal is 7.3V). Measuring the CPU voltage does not get lower than 0.98V on the DMM.
  • When running with the AC charger, if it gets disconnected and remains powered only by the battery, usually shuts down. Time can vary from a couple of seconds up to a few minutes, usually remains more time ON when the CPU is not working hard.
  • When running without battery, same problem happens, maybe it takes a little bit more time, but ends happening too.
  • CPU Core Voltages (as per HW Monitor app) vary from 0.780V up to 1.1V (never stays at one voltage level fixed), confirmed by measuring on C1250-C1253 with a DMM.
    8V back and forth in les than 1 second, is this normal? This voltage fluctuates pretty fast (can go back and forth from 0.78V to 0,9 in less than one second periods).
  • CPU temperature arrives at 90ºC (celsius) when reproducing youtube HD videos or other demanding apps. I have Macs Fan Control set to start on CPU1 at 65ºC and max temperature at 80ºC, so they use to be blowing at almost 5000rpm usually.
  • I've reseted the SMC, NVRAM, etc...
  • Fans are clean of dust.
  • Never did a thermal paste renewal.
¿Any ideas? ¿Can it be the infamous C7771?

Thanks in advance!! I hope this can help other people with similar problems ;)
 
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2informaticos

2informaticos

Administrator
Staff member
Any sign of liquid spill?
C7771 should be changed because of its age anyway, so start doing that.
Next, run ASD and look for any errors.
Check for corrosion at R2120/21.
Also look if PP3V3_G3_RTC is stable; inspect U2801 area.
 
R

RDelectronics

New member
2informaticos said:
Any sign of liquid spill?
C7771 should be changed because of its age anyway, so start doing that.
Next, run ASD and look for any errors.
Check for corrosion at R2120/21.
Also look if PP3V3_G3_RTC is stable; inspect U2801 area.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips 2informaticos. I've been trying to find the BRD file (I have the SCH) to look for those components, but I'm not able to find it. I guess those components are on the CPU side (C7771 for sure isn't it?), so the Logic Board needs to be extracted. Will take it out tomorrow morning. If anyone can share the BRD file of this board, thanks in advance! ;)
 
R

RDelectronics

New member
OK, removed the logic board.

Removed the dust collected in the uP side.

No signs of corrosion or liquid spill. Voltage on R2120/21 is stable at 3.41V on one side, 3.38V on the other side.

U2801 and the Supercap C2800 are not populated :O, now I know why my laptop didn't retain the hour when changed batteries.

C2801 is populated.

Some voltages I've checked, all stable (at least with a DMM):

C2801: 3.41V (OK, as long as it comes from PP3V3_S5_RTC_D)

C7771: 1.16V ( bad news it's not 0.31V... will need to keep working to find the real problem!)

C6999: 3.41V (OK from PP3V42_G3H_REG)
C7292: 3.30V (OK from PP3V3_S5_REG)

F6905: 16.60V (DC_IN, OK? or should it be 18.5V?)
C7031/37: 16.08V (same as before, not sure, on the SCH says 18.5V but comes from DC_IN)

Related with PP_BUS_GH3, all at 8.43V:
F7040/41: 8.43V (PP_BUS_GH3)
C7331: 8.43V (PPVIN_S3_DDRREG)
C7133: 8.43V (PPVIN_S5_CPU_IMVP)
C8930: 8.43V (PPVIN_GPU_GPUVCORE)
C9540: 8.43V (PPVIN_S0GPU_P1V8P1V1)

F4260: 10V (OK)


All seems to be OK except a couple of doubts in bold.

Any other ideas about where to look? Thanks!!
 
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R

RDelectronics

New member
Will do it for sure, just to avoid more problems in the future, but the voltage seems pretty stable with the DMM. Will look tomorrow with an oscilloscope too just in case.

Can it be also that the thermal paste is dry after 9 years, and does not do its work correctly?
 
2informaticos

2informaticos

Administrator
Staff member
Change thermal paste, of course.
Be sure heatpipe is not broken.
Install some software to check temps on the machine...
Do NOT forget to change C7771, with good one.
 
R

RDelectronics

New member
Well... got the cap (330uF, 2.5V) and replaced it C7771. Did also the thermal paste job. Everything with care and discharging static... but now after reinstalling all in the chassis, it does not turns ON (not even once) and the board temperature rises noticeable (does not rise too much but noticeable) on the uP and central NVIDIA (U1400) zones.

Tried reseting the SMC and turn it ON with the SMD jumpers (R5001 & R5015) but no luck. The front white led does not make any light, the fans doesn't move, and the LCD does not show anything. Both powering from battery alone, AC alone, or both.

If I check the battery status with the lateral button it shows 100% charge, if I disconnect the battery the LEDs blink one after another.

Voltages I'm reading are:

C7030: 16.04V
F4020: 9.985V (fluctuates between 9.983V-9.990V)
R7790: 8.4V
C7650: 8.4V
R5015: 3.396V
R5001: 2.960V
U7840 (pin 6): 3.4V
R2120: 3.4V
C3101: 1.5V
Fans (pin 1): 5V
C8000: 1.112V

Will keep looking at voltages all around the PCB, but I don't have good feeling... any idea?
 
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R

RDelectronics

New member
Hot air to remove and a JBC soldering station (founded) to solder again... can this be the problem?

Checked the voltage on C7771 after soldering it and it was 1.12V stable (before it was 1.16V).
 
smiba

smiba

New member
SMC_ON_OFF_L (2.96V) might be slightly lower then its supposed to, I don't think its bad enough to cause issues however.

The fact you have 1.1V at PP1V1_S0GPU means you're in a S0 state so the device is most likely waiting on the CPU to finish its POST routine or other signals indicating boot can continue.

Is PP1V1_S0GPU stable? Or does it go on and off? (Power cycle)
Voltage of MCP_PS_PWRGD? (Is it stable?)

I feel like its possible you've damaged the MCP, have you been careful with heat settings and at least having put on some tape to shield the MCP from direct heat?

EDIT:

I've had many 17" MacBooks from 2009 with this exact same issue though (Random power-off), never been able to resolve most of them. Issues stayed and did not follow any noticeable pattern, it was truly random.
 
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R

RDelectronics

New member
PP1V1_S0GPU is stable, 1.12V.

MCP_PS_PWRGD can not check it now, because it's in the uP layer and the PCB is now fitted in the chassis.

But I've found that:

PP3V3_S0_PWRCTL is 3.3V
S0_PWR_PGOOD is 0V
ALL_GFX_PGOOD_R is 3.3V
And obviously ALL_SYS_PWRGD is 0V...

Now let's see why S0_PWR_PGOOD is 0V
 
2informaticos

2informaticos

Administrator
Staff member
Check first if R7892 is OK.
Next, check all pgood signals involved there.
One of corresponding secondary power supplies doesn't work...
 
R

RDelectronics

New member
Sorry but I don't find R7892 in the schematic (Apple Macbook Pro A1297 K92.pdf). I have it in the PCB. What's the value for this resistor?

Can this make the processors heat?
 
2informaticos

2informaticos

Administrator
Staff member
I use A1297 Cannaregio schematic for 820-2390.
K92 isn't 820-2914?

R7892 is the pull-up resistor (10K) for S0_PWR_PGOOD.
 
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